#76 Sarah Arnold-Hall: Effortless Discipline and Why Thinking “It’s Working” Beats Willpower

Sarah Arnold-Hall
[Speaker 2] (0:02 - 0:52)
Welcome to the Podfather podcast, you can find all the references on podfather.me. Most advice about getting things done says push harder, use more willpower, hustle. My guest today says that is exactly why people burn out. She's climbed Mount Kilimanjaro, blogged every day for two years without missing a day and built a multi six-figure business and she says none of took force or willpower.

Sarah Arnold-Tall is a high performance coach from New Zealand, now based in Sydney, the creator of Effortless Discipline Method and a podcast host herself. So let's find out whether she can make a podcaster's to-do list effortless. Sarah, welcome to the show.

[Speaker 1] (0:53 - 0:55)
Thank you so much. What a great introduction.

[Speaker 2] (0:56 - 1:09)
I suppose it's different to most introductions, but I think it's fitting to the occasion. So I mean, Kilimanjaro, you can tell us a bit about that first. That's interesting.

[Speaker 1] (1:10 - 1:49)
Sure. Yeah. Kilimanjaro is probably one of the most challenging things I have done.

And that's a good example of needing to release the resistance that you're experiencing because each step that you go up, you're going up higher and higher into altitude and more and more symptoms of altitude sickness come on, especially at the last day. I was getting roaring headaches, but it's a really awesome experience because to push yourself past those limits, ideally without force, is such a cool feeling to one day realize like, oh, I actually did that.

[Speaker 2] (1:52 - 1:57)
I don't know. How long preparation do you need to do something like that?

[Speaker 1] (1:58 - 2:38)
Yeah. How long is a piece of string? As long as you've got, ideally.

I think we spent about six months of pretty, you know, daily going up hikes. And my mom would put filled water bottles in our backpacks, and then we would hike up the local hill and, you know, try to increase our fitness that way. So I mostly, it was, it was, I wouldn't say every single day, but we were doing three times a week training like that.

And then for about six months, I think prior, nothing can compare, can prepare you for the altitude though. Unless you have an altitude tank or something like that, but I didn't have access to that.

[Speaker 2] (2:39 - 2:50)
Okay. So your own podcast, uh, how to take action. So I suppose kind of why you decided to start it and kind of how it's evolved.

[Speaker 1] (2:52 - 3:42)
I started how to take action because I felt like I had so many things that I was sharing with my clients that could be applicable for people who weren't my clients. So I remember, you know, creating the name and really feeling like I wanted to just make it as basic and as clear as possible. So literally how to take action, how do you have a goal of something you want to do and how do you take the steps that are necessary to get there?

So I've done, I think maybe we're four years in now with the podcast and you know, some of my favorite episodes have been interviews with people who've achieved big, massive goals that they've been going after, but the core of it has, is always about showing up every single day and taking action towards your goal. Excellent.

[Speaker 2] (3:43 - 4:01)
So usually when somebody has a kind of a mission or their calling and what they get into, it's because they've overcome it themselves. So I'd like to know your own story of what kind of happened that make you then make a transition and figure out how you've got a skill set to help other people.

[Speaker 1] (4:02 - 6:36)
Yeah, that's a very good question. So I started out as a coach when I was 21 years old. I'm 30 now.

And at 21 years old, nobody takes you seriously as a coach, as I mean, potentially as they should, because what, you know, I don't think I had a ton of experience back then, but what really drove me was realizing I need to create this experience. I need to become the person. And so I decided I was going to blog every single day for two years.

And I decided two years because one year felt too basic. What's one year? Two years felt like I should, it felt like if you're not willing to do it for two years, then you're not really committed to doing this thing.

And so I decided to blog every single day. And I, I shared that with the internet and decided I would. And through each challenge that I faced with doing that, some days you're exhausted.

Some days you just don't feel like it. Some days you have creative block. I know you're a podcaster and you probably have perhaps been through similar things where it's challenging to create content, but it really built me the muscle of being disciplined, showing up every single day.

But initially when I was doing it, I was really forcing myself to do it. I was like, I don't want to, but I will. That was my kind of natural thinking.

And I feel like most of us oscillate between, I don't want to, so I want, and I don't want to, but I will. And we're using willpower every day. And that's what it was like for me in the beginning of this blogging journey.

And then after doing it, I don't even know which number of days we were in 275 perhaps. I suddenly had this realization that it would be a lot easier if I just wanted to do it. So instead of telling myself I don't want to, but I will, I started telling myself I want to.

And I started releasing the resistance that I had. And I started realizing, oh, there are so many reasons that I want to do this thing. And I started looking for them.

And that became the natural thought that my brain brought me in the morning was like, oh, I want to do this. And suddenly all of that resistance that I was having, all of the discipline that was needed, that force that I had sort of melted away. And I was able to complete the challenge with such ease.

And I was like, oh, wow. So what I thought was I was building was a blogging business. What I ended up building was helping people release the resistance that they feel to taking action because I discovered that transformation as I was going.

[Speaker 2] (6:37 - 6:44)
And I presume you have about 10 books available now that you can, with all the content that you've created for two years.

[Speaker 1] (6:45 - 6:52)
That's right. I could definitely pump it out into, I've got, I've seen a lot of emails and made a lot of posts based on it, but I haven't actually turned it into a book. Maybe I should.

[Speaker 2] (6:54 - 7:14)
And when you were starting off, like what was your kind of thought process? You'd just talk about what's going on or did you have a kind of strategy? I'm going to talk about this.

And was it kind of planned that it was going to be helping your coaching? That's because at 21, most people they're in the forties and fifties when they decide they want to be a coach. It's very rare somebody's 21 that say, I'm going to be a coach.

[Speaker 1] (7:14 - 8:06)
Yeah, that's right. I really honed my voice as I was writing. So I was writing to my potential clients at that time.

I didn't really have any clients. I was writing to them and talking about the things I was learning. So I remember one of the first blog posts was me talking about how I was doing a challenge where I wasn't allowed to take a shower unless I had been for a run.

So I had to be sweaty in order to take a shower. And so therefore I started running almost every single day. And I, I had little habits and tactics like that, that I was starting to employ to help me take action.

I was kind of documenting my journey of becoming a consistent person. And I thought along the way I would, I would yeah, build this blog, but really instead, I built up this yeah, this completely new mindset.

[Speaker 2] (8:07 - 8:12)
I'm just wondering then after the two years, did you get withdrawal symptoms when you stopped or how did it feel?

[Speaker 1] (8:14 - 8:46)
I, I was actually very relieved when it was done. I think by the time I was two years in, I was ready. And that's when I started the podcast.

I was so excited to start a podcast, but I really believe in sequencing your goals one goal at a time, either complete it or at least get it to a place where it's really automatic and then you can start another one. And so I, I didn't want to take on a podcast until I had completed my daily blogging. And so then as soon as I did that, I pretty much started the podcast and that became my new form, not daily, but certainly weekly blogging with my voice.

[Speaker 2] (8:47 - 9:06)
And cause I've listened to one of the episodes and you're kind of, you're giving advice, but then you're kind of saying, you can have a call to action as well. Like I can help you and stuff. But most people don't do that, even though they're kind of coaching, they don't.

And I'm just wondering, has that helped you? Has it got your clients from the podcast by the strategy that you're using?

[Speaker 1] (9:07 - 10:08)
Absolutely. I don't think I would have created a business had I not made the offers. That was this, the next thing that I did after daily blogging was other than once I had my podcast, but within that I decided I was going to make daily offers.

So if it was, if it was a podcast day, I would make it on the podcast. If it was another day, I would make it in a message to somebody or on an Instagram post. And I decided every single day I was going to make an offer.

And that is when my business finally took off because when I was blogging, I blogged, but it was on my website. I wasn't putting it anywhere and I wasn't any good at SEO. So I didn't have anybody coming to me through the blog.

It, it helped me in a lot of ways, but not in terms of getting clients. So then once I was like, okay, I need to start getting clients. I use that skill of showing up daily to make offers daily.

And so absolutely. My podcast has been a hugely important part of being able to make offers, especially because I don't want to just make offers and sell randomly. I want to be able to give value and make sure the right people get that offer.

[Speaker 2] (10:09 - 10:55)
I mean, I've got 10 podcasts and you know, I get all the different pitches to some things that we connected on Podmash, but you've done a pitch that I haven't seen before. I see generic ones where people leave advice messages, if it's for me, but it's not really for me, but your one was unique. And I was like, okay, that was good.

And I'm just wondering when you figured out that one and how successful it has. And the reason I'm asking is I'm working with a client at the moment. I offer that service to get people on shows, some take it, but, you know, he's decided I can do it myself.

And then he's coming back and he's like, nobody's accepting. I figured it out of different ways to do it as well, but I love the way you've done it. And I'm just wondering where that came from and how successful you found this with other, getting on other shows.

[Speaker 1] (10:55 - 11:35)
Yeah. Well, that it's interesting. You say I haven't been on a podcast interview in a little while.

This is probably the first one I've done this year. And I always feel like when I get pitched, cause I have a podcast, I don't know who the person is. They all seem the same.

And so it really came out of my own desire to send a little video to you and actually say hello and introduce myself. So you could feel if I would be the right guest for the podcast and also make it personal. Cause I had listened to your podcast and I wanted you to know and hear my insights from that and, and actually create a real connection with another human being because that's what we are.

[Speaker 2] (11:36 - 12:20)
So if we kind of go into your work and if we take it kind of like say the podcasters, because you've got the experience, your podcaster yourself. And if we look at say somebody, cause a lot of people, unfortunately they throw in the towel, they do three episodes, they do 10 episodes and then they're done. So they think it kind of like the editing, you know, the pre preparing, editing, marketing, the whole lot.

And then they kind of feel overwhelmed and everything. So based on kind of earlier conversations, I suppose it's a, a mindset shift that you're not kind of going on. Oh, I've got to edit this.

And you kind of beat yourself up and then your, your willpower has just been sucked out. So maybe take us through how you could make a shift for those that kind of struggle.

[Speaker 1] (12:21 - 14:27)
Absolutely. Well, I believe that the awareness of progress is the best motivation. I used to say that progress is the best motivation, but oftentimes we don't even notice our progress.

So for me, it was something like putting out a podcast. When I first put it out, I didn't even know how to look at the numbers and I didn't know if anyone was listening. And so I just decided to, to look for the small ways that it was working and tell myself it's working and, and find those.

So one of the ways I knew it was working is because I finally had created something. And then I would, maybe I would receive one message from someone saying, hey, listen to it. And I used to actually record down all of these little wins, because I believe that the best possible thought you can have is the thought it's working as if you're creating something or you're trying to achieve a goal.

As soon as you think the thought it's not working, then you stop working. You pull back, you try to change the strategy. You go back to the drawing board and then it stops working.

So it's a self-fulfilling prophecy. And the moment that you get yourself into know it's working, then you keep working at it. And eventually it works.

And so that was really my way of staying engaged with the podcasts every day or any little win that I had. If I, if I, once I did figure out how to see my downloads, if I saw the downloads increased by one, I would write it down because it feels like progress. And that's what kept me going.

And similarly with the blog too, with the blog, I used public accountability as my technique. And I mean, my reputation was on the line. I told everyone that I knew that I was going to blog every day for two years.

So that also helps. If you say, I'm going to release a weekly podcast and you really share that and you mean it, then it, then it helps. But certainly for me that if you can take that thought, it's not working and you can instead switch it to it's working, you must find evidence for it.

Cause it's not enough to just say, oh, it's not working. No, it is working. You have to look for why, but if you can look for why you'll never stop.

If you really keep believing that it's working, why would you stop? Have you ever experienced that Roy? Like when you create, like, like, have you ever watched your brain go, it's not working with one of your podcasts?

[Speaker 2] (14:27 - 14:31)
No, never. I'm too optimistic. I'm always, it's great.

[Speaker 1] (14:32 - 14:36)
That's it. That's why you've got so many podcasts and they're all so successful.

[Speaker 2] (14:37 - 17:36)
And I remember at the start, it was, I was able to land really good claims and it was like, my belief system was like, yeah, they should come on my show. Not I hope I can get them on my show. And that shift, I like, I remember getting David, I kept for the awakening on the ninth episode and I've got really famous people.

And it was just kind of like, yeah, they should be on my show. And so I think sometimes people, you know, they think, oh, I wish I could get someone. And the other thing is you have to look at the metrics.

And a lot of times I talk to people and they're like, no, I don't look at the metrics. It's just the way it is. But you don't know if something's working properly and how to make it improve because I'm just sitting, like, I have a system that I have an Excel sheet and I use colors.

And it's like, if I get half a percent, it's yellow. If it's 1%, it's green. And if it's 2%, it's purple.

I didn't want to have red because I didn't want traffic lights. And I just kind of, red is negative anyway from school and things. And it's just, I get more purple and purple and they compounded yearly.

That's a massive amount of increase. And it mightn't seem like much. And on the other thing, what you've said there, and I think it's very important.

I know you're making, looking out for the positivity and comments and things there. Whereas a lot of times, because there's always haters, it could be 1%. And that's why people, like, especially when, like with the awakeness, kind of exposing fraud and corruption.

So I got into a circle of people. A lot of people kind of started podcasts around the kind of COVID area about that exposing what was going on. And most of them, throwing the towel, they were like, because they were getting attacked and abused.

And they didn't look at the love. You know, you have to look at the love. And even like, I tell people, whether you save it on a computer or write it down, it does hurt at times.

You just go, well, you know, somebody can say such a thing. And they say, you remove it, you delete it, you report it, or you ignore it. And just then concentrate on, okay, where's the love coming from?

Whereas most people, they'll just give all their energy towards that. Or they'll go engaging with, you know, a keyboard warrior, which what I've seen recently is like, there's over 50% of bots now. So most of the time people are engaging in conversations.

It's not even a human and they don't even realize it. So when you're paying attention to your listeners and the comments, you'll actually know who's genuine. And, you know, like, I think I was at an event before, they have it in the jar there.

And it was kind of, they were encouraging people to leave nice messages for people that you connected with. It was AFS, it was like Mindvalley event. And they still have it.

It's like, they have it there. Like, as I've been kind of loading all the people that left lovely messages for you, because a lot of you see my name is on it. So they create that and they do a picture and people put a comment in and it's just like, you get a blues there, you can look at that.

And it's the same with your content that you're doing. If you're getting a blues there, just go up and look where the love is coming from instead of concentrating on the hate.

[Speaker 1] (17:38 - 17:46)
Ah, that's so good. I just love the way you said it. Just look for the love.

That's exactly it. That's like, why is it working? Look for the love.

[Speaker 2] (17:47 - 18:25)
Exactly. So with that, because I know you talk about kind of like the burnout as well, because people just, I suppose everybody kind of gets into their own kind of road and then they feel, okay, I get my head down and I start doing this and they just, they lose track of what's going on. And if you talk to, most people in life have experienced burnout and it's a case of, I like the way that you're covering it because most people kind of think, ah, it won't happen to me, but they're in it before they even realise it.

So would you experience it and maybe touch on the burnout? Because I think it's a very important topic.

[Speaker 1] (18:26 - 20:18)
Yeah, I completely agree. I think most people have experienced it because we're, we're really good at taking on too much. Um, but I think it's not just too much stuff.

It's also too much negativity because there's the physical burnout that you can experience from actually having so many things you're doing in your day. And then there's the emotional burnout that you feel from thinking all the time. I'm so tired.

This is exhausting. I don't want to do this because I don't know if you've experienced this. I imagine you have with your, with your many podcasts that when you're really engaged with something and you're excited about it, you can work for 16 hours a day with no, like, you don't feel burnt out at the end at all because the thoughts that you're thinking while you're doing it are like, this is great.

I'm enjoying this so much. How amazing. And you're getting energised from it.

And so for me, burnout has always been a, anytime I think I'm getting even remotely close to that, I'm always asking, is it actually a physical burnout? In which case I'd probably need to sleep more. It's probably the main thing and eat better and take some breaks.

Or is it really emotional burnout, which is just me dreading and resisting every single task. And when I think about creating a podcast, when I first started making them, it felt like I couldn't even breathe when I was making the podcast. I felt like such a tightness in my chest because of all the thoughts that I was having about how I needed to be perfect and it had to be a certain way.

And that's exhausting. Even if you work for one hour on a podcast, you feel like you need a nap for the next three days because you are fighting yourself as you're doing it. So I think if you can release the resistance within you and you can, and yeah, you can remove that layer of dread that's part of it, or that's the stress or the force that's with it, then you can do a lot of things in your day.

There's still a limit, but you can do a lot and not actually burn out.

[Speaker 2] (20:21 - 21:52)
And then you've kind of, if we look at problems kind of like perfectionism as well, because sometimes people, they want, like I do, if I'm doing a voice recording or I'm doing, it's a one take, you know, very, very rarely that I'll do a take too. It's like maybe 1% of the time there's a take too. It's always going to, even if I'm leaving a voice message, I just, you know, if I'm doing an introduction to somebody, just press record, boom.

And I hear so many people go, this is my 30th attempt. Or if they're trying to do a recording or they're trying to do a two minute thing, like they'll say how many times, I've even like, cause with the speaking podcast, I've had people saying like they've done it a thousand times before they decide to do it. And it's like, you know, it's like, I don't have time to do things like that.

And it's like, and what I found in business and in life, the perfectionists, they're way behind. Yeah. Do they get it better?

Oh yeah, absolutely. You know, when you start off, will they have it better than when you started off? Good, 90% of the chance, but you're two miles down the road by the time they're out the door and then they'll never catch up.

And it's like, they're hurting themselves. So we've obviously seen that. Can a person get out of that?

Because I've actually been in a business with a bottle and it was like, it was wrecking my head. Like, you know, for somebody when you want to just run ahead and get things done and they're still kind of crossing the T's and dotting the O's. So can a person change from that?

And what's your experience with dealing with people?

[Speaker 1] (21:53 - 22:21)
Yes, that's a really great question. Absolutely. I think anybody can change.

Our brains are so plastic and moldable and changeable, but you have to become aware of what the problem is in order to solve it. So you have to figure out what is the sentence that's going through my mind that's making me act this way? Because just as you said that you're not this way at all.

So I would actually be very curious to know what are the sentences that you have in your mind when you hit record and it doesn't go the way you want? Like, what are you thinking?

[Speaker 2] (22:22 - 22:24)
It always goes the way I want because I set the intention.

[Speaker 1] (22:26 - 22:28)
Okay. So you're just, I'm just going to keep going. Is that what you're just thinking?

[Speaker 2] (22:28 - 22:43)
What I want to say is like, it's only if I kind of like the 1% time it's like, you know, sometimes I might just make it a little stutter or just get a brain fart, forget the other person's name or something like that and then just record again.

[Speaker 1] (22:43 - 23:01)
But in that moment, right? The perfectionists and I've definitely been this person, right? I'm thinking, I have to start again.

It needs to be perfect. It's got to be a certain way or I'm not going to get the result that I want. And you are obviously not having those thoughts.

So in that moment, when you forget somebody's name or you miss out, what is the thought that goes through your mind?

[Speaker 2] (23:01 - 23:10)
Well, just, okay. Yeah, that didn't work out. Let's go again.

And just fast. I don't, don't overthink it. Just yeah, straight and then record done at the next thing that I'm doing.

[Speaker 1] (23:11 - 23:32)
Okay. So the only reason there's like not really too much going on is because you just don't have an underlying belief that it needs to be a certain way. Right.

Which I think that that's what perfectionism is. We start out with this like expectation. It's going to be a hundred percent.

And if we don't meet that, then we have to redo it. Whereas it sounds like you just don't have that expectation for yourself. So those thoughts aren't even rising.

Is that true?

[Speaker 2] (23:33 - 25:35)
Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And I mean, even like if I look at say the podcast, I mean, at the start I was the very first one, it's different when you have one as opposed to 10, but like the first one I was taking out the pause fillers and, uh, you know, ums and ahs and reducing, you know, if there was a long pause in between.

And then I was, I started listening to the better podcasts and I was trying to understand what's going on. I said, they're going out just as is. Not maybe live, some are live like Patrick Bette Davis and then say Joe Rogan, but they're, they're as is.

So why am I taking this out? Cause if you're having a conversation, if we met in a, you know, went for a coffee, there could be pause fillers there. I know there could be long pauses.

And what I've realized is, and it was when, when people are having a conversation and you say something deep, the person is going into a deep thought process, hope that before they answer, instead of just going straight into it, but so is the audience. And if I reduce that pause, I've just removed that from them. And it just continues on.

They don't even realize it, but you're, you're ruining the experience. So that's why I've realized as it is. And sometimes like, and doing a new one that was called different points.

And we've got, we basically come up with a question and my cohost and me both give our take on it. And there's times, and we kind of swap who starts the episode. So we swap.

And there's times that we make a little error. We, we just forget, Oh, I'm ending it or something like that. We just laugh and we leave it in because I think it's showing our authenticity and this is how we are.

I know that some people, when they're doing something like that, they could have take 50 and, and then they're wondering this isn't working. I'm not getting, nobody's listening or whatever, but you can even see when somebody is recording, you can see the little, little glitches, you know, and they make it look like I'm perfect. But I think even if you don't realize that, I think the brain is actually telling you that.

And then people are wondering why, why aren't people connecting with me? Because you're not being authentic. You're faking it to make it look like you're perfect.

[Speaker 1] (25:38 - 26:57)
I think that takes a lot of untraining your brain because when I first started recording podcasts, I would, when I'm live, you see how I just didn't finish a sentence just there I'm with you right now. And so I'm talking to you. So I just have to keep going.

But if by myself I go, and then I would just stop and then I'd start again. And it was almost like, because I thought I could. So one of the things that I did to help train some of that out of me as I decided to just start doing live streams, not as my podcast, but just to try to do them.

And my first live stream, I decided I was going to do live every day for seven days. I was so nervous. And you can see me like my eyes get really wide when I mess up.

And there's this moment of awkwardness. And by the fifth day, I'm being like, I'm, I'm so comfortable now I'm bored. Like, this is great.

And so actually learning how to be live has helped me in the recording process, but I can definitely take it up a notch. I think you've got an even more relaxed energy around it and that I would like to borrow and take on. So any, if you come up, if you do figure out any of the thoughts that you're having, other than just, there's no, just move on.

If you have any thoughts and I want to borrow them, because it seems like you've got some really good beliefs under there about, about podcasting. I mean, I can already hear you say like that the better, better shows are actually the ones that don't edit in any particular way.

[Speaker 2] (26:58 - 27:48)
I think it's kind of self-love instead of beating herself up, because if we look at, even if we're speaking around, and I guess, you know, I was kind of late to the game going to overcoming speaking. I was my biggest critic. I was thinking in my head how bad it was and everything.

And, but I saved every single one and I was looking at, and then I kind of, after I'd watched it, I was, oh, wasn't that bad there, you know, it was kind of, so I, and I did a lot of lives as well. I think I maybe done 200 lives and, you know, it is, you're, you know, there's no kind of going, well, take two. And it's happened that you're on a show where somebody says, oh, we'll start again.

And then we're telling them, sorry, it's live, you know, because people are so used to that situation. And it's great watching somebody kind of go into panic mode and having to get over it within seconds, you know, so.

[Speaker 1] (27:49 - 28:07)
Well, the worst is when I've listened to a podcast and they've clearly redone the segment, but they didn't edit it out. So they've stopped, they've paused, and then you hear them redo the edit. And it's this cringe moment of like, I know you're trying to make it perfect, but you've clearly in, in trying to make it perfect, you've made it seem inauthentic, like you said before.

[Speaker 2] (28:08 - 29:14)
Yeah. There's a lot. I mean, this, this time I said to somebody, I said, you just put out an episode and you've done this, this, and this.

And it's like, you know, leaving in stuff that they should take out and that, yeah, you're doing damage to yourself because sometimes people, they understand if something goes wrong or, you know, make a mistake or you get something wrong. You say, sorry, you have to check this. I made, I can't remember a thing.

Everyone's okay with that. But when you kind of do it in a fake way and then leave in the edits or like, I've heard people say, okay, what we'll do now is we'll take this out and then we'll do this. And they've just left that in, like, that's what you're going to say.

And really, I've seen that so many times and you're kind of, you're cringing yourself, but get back to what you said. I think it's not beating yourself up because we all tend to be critical of ourselves. And it's like, I think it's kind of, park the ego, park everything.

What's my mission? My mission is to actually provide as much value as I can. So I'm coming from a place of love, but you have to have self love as well.

Cause why would you be hurting yourself? Cause you're not doing anything, you know, cause it goes into yourselves. So I think we all have to kind of experience love for ourselves so that we can give love for others.

[Speaker 1] (29:16 - 30:36)
Hmm. I love that. That reminds me of a, an idea that I ended up coming up with around time management, which is called best friend calendaring.

And the idea is I used to feel like every time I looked at my calendar for the week, it felt like it was for my worst enemy. Like I wouldn't do this to someone. I hate it.

Like back to back to back works jammed in and no breaks. And even though I was talking before about it, because you can feel good about that. I looked at that and I didn't feel good about that.

And so I was like, what if I treated this? Like I was doing it for my best friend, for somebody that I loved. And so now whenever I make my calendar every week, I make it.

And then I imagine that I'm going to have to give it to somebody I love to do instead of me. So then I look and I'm like, Oh, would I really make somebody, you know, do that many, I don't know, things each day, or am I going to make a myself do it that early in the morning? I don't want to have to do that in the moment.

You think, no, no, no, it'll be fine. And then while you're scheduling it, and then you really don't want to do it in the moment. So I just think that self-love piece is so important.

And it's so cool to hear you say that as well. I feel like there's very few people talking about that, that aren't in the self-love space as their main niche. So it's really cool to hear you say that.

[Speaker 2] (30:38 - 32:15)
And with the calendar, what I found is because I'm after getting involved in a lot more businesses now lately. So I've taken on a few more things, but they're all things that I'm passionate about. So it's okay.

But I'm finding a lot of people were kind of, you know, want more and more calls where everybody's recommending, Hey, you need to talk to Roy, the podfather and stuff like that. And it's like, it was all great. And then I was like, all right, now I'm not getting time to actually do the thing.

So when I say I have a client that I'm working with, I block out another hour afterwards, because that's the time that it's fresh in my mind. I've just got it there. Okay.

I said, we're going to doing this, this, this, and it's getting done. And I blocked out. And then I kind of say for another business, okay, I want to spend time on this.

I just blocked it out the whole way. And I'm not allowing myself to be available constantly. And that way then that I found, okay, this is going to move the needle a lot, a lot faster.

And regarding kind of intentions, because I'm in a, I've got my own private business group, the authority alliance, but I'm in another one. It's a big, it's a big one. There's about 700 people in it.

And it's been very good for me. I've done very well from it, but there's been times at the meetings and a few people have said, it's like, you know, depending on who was hosting, it's like, that was a waste of my time. You know, it was just kind of, and I said it to somebody and go, that never happens to me.

Cause they said, I put my intention out that I'm going to get something out of it. And I went, fool. Yeah.

So I changed my thought process that I'm going to get something out of this meeting. And since I've done that, I do instead of thinking, oh, I've just wasted an hour. So it's kind of going back to what we were saying earlier is kind of the intention that's out there.

You get what you're actually put out there.

[Speaker 1] (32:16 - 32:30)
Oh, that's so good. Yeah. Deciding you're going to get what you came for and no matter what, even if the investment that you thought you were going to get out of it, isn't the result that you get, you can, you can get something that feels really good.

[Speaker 2] (32:31 - 33:07)
I suppose the next one I want to touch on is procrastination because we have perfectionism, but procrastination is going to, I mean, if it's happened all this, I mean, there's times you kind of put off stuff and then you kind of go, all right, better do this. And you end up getting it done 10 times faster than your mind had told you. Why that is, I don't know.

And there's other times that you kind of park something and it gets resolved anyway. So there's advantages as well for parking. But some people live in procrastination more than nothing gets done.

And it's kind of, I suppose maybe we'll touch on that one next.

[Speaker 1] (33:08 - 36:08)
Yeah. Oh, I mean, you're just defining my past self perfectly. I used to be a chronic procrastinator.

I mean, hence why I do what I do now, because I've worked through so much of it. I think the key to procrastination and understanding it is being aware of what you're believing about the task that you're doing. So we often put off the task because we think that it's going to be a certain way.

Like you said, Oh, it actually turns out it only took 10 minutes. It was so easy, but we have a story in our minds about what that's going to be like. And that creates some kind of, you know, uh, fear or overwhelm or stress or lethargy.

We don't want to execute a doubt that it's going to work. And for me, my, my best process for overcoming procrastination is to identify an antidote thought. So you look at, well, what is the thought?

What is the belief that my brain is bringing me right now about this task? It thinks it's going to be hard. So an antidote is a thought that directly addresses that thought.

So it's generally the opposite thought. So if I'm thinking this is going to be hard, I will tell myself, this is going to be easy. And of course you don't just suddenly believe that you have to then go, why, why is this going to be easy?

And the moment you start looking for why this thing is going to be easy, for example, I don't know what it is. I always procrastinated emptying the dishwasher. It just felt like this thing in my mind, of course, it's so simple, but in my head, I just, I had this, this feeling that it was going to be really boring.

And so I started telling myself, it's going to be fun. And immediately my brain's like that. There's nothing fun about the dishwasher.

But then as soon as you start to unpack and you think, well, what could be fun about the dishwasher? Why is it fun? I'm like, well, one thing I really like about it is when I open it and it's hot, I really enjoy the, like putting everything away while the glasses are warm.

Okay. So that's, that's a little bit fun. And as soon as you start to unlock that and you start to break it, like this isn't, this not only isn't boring, I could listen to a podcast while I do it.

I can relax. You start to just break that belief by coming up with an antidote. And so for me, I do it really quickly.

Now it's like, what is the, what's the resistance that my brain is bringing me? What's the opposite of that? And then why is that opposite thing true?

Because whatever we believe is only because we have evidence for it. A belief is a thought you've got evidence for. So you can come up with evidence for anything.

That's how we've got people with all kinds of beliefs in the world. And if I tell you that the sky is blue and you've got evidence that the sky is blue, then you're going to believe me. But if I tell you that the sky is orange, and then I give you reasons for why the sky is orange, no look outside.

No, it is orange. You know, the sun is setting. Okay.

Now I kind of believe that the sky is orange. Whereas before I was totally set on the idea that the sky is blue. So you can really change what you believe if you find the antidote and then look for reasons.

So for me, every time my brain wants to procrastinate, I just go, what is it saying? And then what's the opposite of that? And why is that true?

[Speaker 2] (36:11 - 36:26)
I wrote a post a couple of years ago. It was like, I said, yeah, we created a procrastinators anonymous group two years ago, and we're about to have our first meeting next week, just as a joke. And people wrote saying, I'd like to join.

And they were serious.

[Speaker 1] (36:30 - 36:34)
I love that. You can say you can join tomorrow.

[Speaker 2] (36:35 - 36:35)
Exactly.

[Speaker 1] (36:35 - 37:18)
Yeah. Well, a lot of it. I also realized from me is that it's never the task, actually, that you're treating.

It's the transition between what you're doing right now and doing it like if I'm sitting on the couch, I don't want to get off the couch. I don't want to get in the shower. And then once I'm in the shower, I don't want to get out.

I don't want to go to bed. And then once it's once it's morning, I don't want to get out of bed. And it's all because of the transition between it's never really the task.

It's never really that bad, whatever it is that we're doing. Otherwise, we wouldn't be doing it. We would quit.

So it's never actually the thing. Once you're in it, you can't stop yourself. You just want to keep going.

We have inertia. So you can remember that as well, that it's really just changing the task that I have to shift my mind through. It's only going to take a couple of seconds and it'll get better.

[Speaker 2] (37:19 - 37:35)
I was just wondering, you know, because you mentioned 21, wanting to be a coach, how have you evolved? You know, it's not even 10 years, you know, still very young, but how we've evolved in the as a coach?

[Speaker 1] (37:37 - 40:14)
That's a great question. Nobody has ever asked me that. My evolution as the actual coach has been a lot more confidence.

I feel confident to coach anybody now because I really feel like everybody's just a human with a brain. I had an Olympian come to me and before I had her, I remember thinking, oh man, how am I going to coach an Olympian? Like this is going to be wild.

I also thought I would have to seek out that kind of thing, but she came to me and she had already been to the Olympics and she wanted to go to the next Olympics, but she was feeling nervous about it and she wanted coaching on it. And when I met her, I realized, oh, you're a human like everybody else, every single other person. And it sounds obvious, like, of course she is, but every single technique that I use with every other client works with her brain too, because she's also a human being.

And so there's a huge amount of confidence that came with helping more and more people. You start to see the patterns are exactly the same. It doesn't matter who you're talking to, what they're going through.

There's always something you can help with because it's just five different things. For example, there's like one of five things that could possibly be, and we just work through those things, which one it is. So I built a lot of confidence with that, I would say over my coaching career, but I've also gotten much better at marketing throughout my coaching career.

At 21 years old, I was not very excellent at it. It took me a couple of years to get my business going, but then when I finally got it going, it really took off. So, and that, a lot of that was down to taking action, but not taking action until I saw the result.

Just like you were talking about with the podcasters who start a podcast and in three episodes and they're done. I try, that was definitely me when I first started. Oh, the magic solution I've discovered today is funnels.

No, we need to do podcasting. No, it's LinkedIn. No, it's TikTok.

And all of those strategies work if you work them. So you have to show up and actually keep going until you see the result because any of them are going to work. So when I discovered that, I was like, oh, I'm just going to have to pick one thing, go all in on it.

It doesn't even matter what, I'm just going to keep going until I get the result. And that's finally when my business took off and I started to see success. So that has been definitely a transformation as well.

I have to remind myself of that today still, because I'll see some new shiny thing and I'm like, ooh, that's the thing I need to be going after. You're like, no, all of it works. Stick to your strategy.

Just keep going.

[Speaker 2] (40:15 - 41:25)
I think that's a very important thing that you've just said, because I remember at the start, I was like, you know, I tried all of them and LinkedIn seemed to be decent enough, but I got Facebook to work. And most people are saying Facebook doesn't work. I figured it out how to do it.

But Instagram, I was like, this isn't working for me. And I stopped putting effort into it because most people are trying to be in the 10 places, so they're really nowhere. And so I figured, oh, then I got the audio started and then started working on different things, but get one, get systems in place and move on to the other.

So a lot of podcasters, they are coaches themselves and a lot of them have skillsets in what they're doing, but it's attracting the client. I mentioned at the start that the way you actually do your own show yourself, you're kind of doing a decent sale without it being salesy. That's really nice the way that you've done it.

What other things have you kind of figured out? Like what you've just said is just finding something, sticking to it, getting it to work. Any other kind of tips that you could share that might help those that are coaching as well and trying to find clients or whatever business that they're doing?

[Speaker 1] (41:27 - 44:07)
Yeah. Okay. So the key things that changed things for me, one is making offers.

You cannot get around this. You must ask people. They will not come to you.

They might, you might get a handful of people over time, but it's not going to be consistent. You're not going to create the results you want. Make offers every day.

If you can make it three times a day. If that breaks your brain, you can do it anyway. You get to choose where you want to do it, but you have to keep saying, Hey, I can help you.

Did you know I can help you? That's number one. But then you've also got to have somebody to say that to.

So it is really important that you actually get out there and create connections, whether that is through podcasting or whether that's through a personal connection that you make with someone at a networking event. I, I like to think of it like Maslow's hierarchy of needs. Do you know what I'm talking about?

His hierarchy where, you know, you kind of move up the ranks. You can also think of it as a ladder, but down at the bottom, you've got. The connection is the lowest.

And I would consider that one way text. So if you write a book, I can understand it, but I don't feel connection to you as an author. The same way I would, as if I was face to face with you and having a discussion, you and I are at the top level right now, we're having a face to face discussion.

The, if I start at the top, the face to face is the highest connection. And then if we removed our video that we're doing right now, then we would be voice to voice. And that's still a great connection.

And then if we remove the voice, we could do texting back and forth. So we'd be text to text. And if we moved one of us, then one of us could do video.

And if we remove the video, one of us could do audio and then one of us could do text. But the, but what I often see is that people start out, they're like, I'm going to do marketing. Let me do one way text.

Like I'm just going to put out posts. And while that can connect you to people, it's a good way to, to reach a lot of people. It's not the greatest way to form the fastest connection.

So if you're going to do posts like that, you want to move up the rungs as quickly as you can. How can I connect with someone face to face? Can I send a voice note to them first?

I mean, that's one of the reasons why I sent you a video. It's because it's a much higher level of connection than if I had just sent a one way message to you. So the more you can work out, how can I get from being disconnected to people or only slightly connected?

How can I move my way up that hierarchy of connections so that I spend way more time either face to face or voice to voice, or even text to text, as long as we're back and forth and we feel that connection, then the better. And that's how you're going to then have people to make offers to.

[Speaker 2] (44:09 - 44:52)
I mean, I suppose even just communicating with people, I personally prefer voice message because sometimes people misinterpret what you're writing. And I'm, I'm always joking. You know, I think you have to enjoy life.

And sometimes people, if you're writing it, they, they don't get that you're joking, but when you leave a voice message, they can hear it in your voice that you're only kind of taking the piss and that's all good. Whereas they can take it seriously when it's a text. And I think with the message that you're doing as well, how will people interpret, know what they're reading because you, you have in your head that you're trying to be funny and you leave and see sometimes people do the post and then they're being attacked and they're going, no, what I meant was this.

And I think you have to kind of tinker that as well before you put your message out.

[Speaker 1] (44:54 - 45:04)
That's so true. There's a number of misinterpretations I've had on text is far too many. I think it's so worth voice notings, I love that.

[Speaker 2] (45:05 - 45:09)
I mean, just fighting on kids, you knew that you moved from New Zealand to Sydney.

[Speaker 1] (45:09 - 46:23)
So I'm not sure it was that something that when you were younger or recent or I moved here two and a half years ago, my partner got a job here, but I also used to live in the UK. I lived there for two years. And that was because I in New Zealand, we have this thing called an OE.

It means overseas experience. It's the, the reason we use it is when you're so far across the rest of the world, it's not like if you live in the UK, you can have an overseas experience on the train, just get on the train to Paris and overseas experience usually means months at a time. And so when you go on your big OE, you're then expected to come home and get a regular job and settle down and hate your life a little bit.

And I didn't want to do that. And so I thought if I'm going to do this OE, I'm not coming back at least not for a little while. So I spent a couple of years in England and that's when I started building my business too.

It really gave me the opportunity to, to physically put space between my past self and who I was and building this new self. So that's also an effective thing you can do is even if you can't do it by moving country, actually changing your environment in some way can really also help you build a new vision of yourself, which is how I ended up building this coaching business.

[Speaker 2] (46:25 - 47:06)
I've, my experience with seeing people that have lived abroad, they think differently because it's just opened the box to creativity that's flowing. They're never the same, even if it's six months, you know, like if somebody was in the UK and went back to Poland or, you know, wherever they went and then they come back there, they're a different person. I'd encourage everybody to do it because I think we're all conditioned in the environment that we're in.

And once you step out of that life, it's totally different because you, you kind of think how people should think of how everything works and you get a rude awakening at times because you go like, okay, this doesn't work here and people think differently here, but which makes you more open to everything when you go back.

[Speaker 1] (47:07 - 47:34)
Yeah, that's so true. It also, I guess would help you if you can, if you've never experienced that shift of, of, of just being around a different group of people who think differently, then you don't even know you have the option to think differently about all of the things in your life, right? Like podcasting or whatever you're procrastinating.

So I love that. I, that connection that you just made. That's great.

I mean, you've, you've lived in Poland a little while, right?

[Speaker 2] (47:35 - 47:36)
Yeah. 20 years. Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (47:37 - 47:37)
Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (47:38 - 48:53)
That's when I went to Estonia twice, but it was far mine Valley, but for a month, I've done it twice for a month. I did it once the second time with my son and I went to Croatia as well. And it's just, it's just interesting just kind of knowing, you know, well, one safety, you know, walking home, but just seeing how things are done, you know, looking at the roadworks, even in Estonia, Ooh, they do everything at night when the cars are less instead of here in Poland, they have half the roads shut down and they do 10 years of construction.

And just how, like one of the things that I found strange is in Ireland, we crossed the road, you know, in some countries they have jaywalking like America, everybody kind of jaywalking Poland is the same. And of course, when you look for a police officer for anything, they're not available, but they have thousands of them at each corner just to catch the grannies walking across the road. But I've seen so many people get knocked down here because green man is up and they walk, they don't look, whereas the Irish are looking and the English are looking as they're crossing the road.

And it's just how being conditioned can affect you. And there's a lot more in that, in your thought process and trusting kind of the white coats or whatever it is, thinking how a system is and government's got your back. And when you move across just by talking to other people, maybe they're ahead.

And then when you come back, you can actually share your experiences that maybe wake up a few people as well.

[Speaker 1] (48:55 - 49:04)
I think that's such a good metaphor, the green man going like that, there's got to be a business metaphor in there somewhere that you're just blind to it. You know, that's so good.

[Speaker 2] (49:06 - 49:13)
Well, listen, Sarah, I totally enjoyed the conversation. You might let the listeners know where they can find you.

[Speaker 1] (49:14 - 49:34)
I love this too. It's so great. You're so, you're chucklier than I thought you were, you know, like you chuckle, which is so fun.

I like to chuckle too. I am under my name, saraharnaval.com, or you can find me on my podcast, How to Take Action.

[Speaker 2] (49:36 - 50:17)
Excellent. I'll make sure I put the links both on the audio, the video. Thank you very much.

That's all for the Podfather. You'll find all our episodes on Podfather, no problem at all. You'll find all the episodes on podfather.me, find everything about me, scan the QR code or go to roycoughlan.com.

You'll find all my podcasts along with all my clients' podcasts as well. And I've got two private business member groups that you can become part of if you're interested. And I'm also working with PEMF and EMF technology.

You'll find information like that. And if you're looking for virtual assistance, go to va.world. Sure to give us thumbs up, five star rating. And when you check out Sarah's podcast, do the exact same.

Until next week, take care.